Mushawarat: sensible Muslim leadership for a trouble time
Submitted by admin3 on 26 September 2008 - 5:40am.
Dr. Zafarul Islam Khan in Mushawrat office
By Kashif-ul-Huda, TwoCircles.net,
Just hours after a social activist is arrested in Delhi, a press release by All India Muslim Majlis-e-Mushawarat (AIMMM) alerts rest of India about this arrest and puts pressure on the government to release him. Similarly, soon after Jamia Nagar encounter in which two Muslim youths were killed, a delegation of Muslim leaders under the leadership of Dr. Zafarul Islam Khan, president of Mushawarat visits the area and plans their next course of action.
For Mushawarat which was established in 1965, it has always been a matter of principle to take action within the democratic and constitutional framework of India. It is remarkable that even with major incident that had shaken India and especially Muslims of India, the community had always believed in the rule of law and never taken law in their own hands.
Be it Babri Masjid demolition, Gujarat genocide of 2002, innumerable riots since 1947, or recent harassment of the community in the name of terror investigations, Indian Muslims have always affirmed their faith in the constitution, justice system, and process of dialog.
Mushawarat was established in 1965 as a result of challenges and frustration of Muslim masses and leadership. Early 1960s saw riots erupting in many parts of India. The idea was to have a strong core group to work with the government and political parties and also to guide and lead Muslims of India on social and political issues.
Famous heart surgeon of Lucknow Dr. Abdul Jaleel Faridi was the main force behind the inception of Mushawarat. He was able to bring professional Muslims and religious leadership under this platform.
Since Mushawarat was not ready to become a political party Dr. Faridi launched Muslim Majlis as a political party in 1968. It won three MLA seats in UP assembly elections of 1969. The peak for Muslim Majlis was 1977 elections when it won eight Assembly and two Lok Sabha seats. MM as a party still exist in UP but its last MLA was Fazlul Bari elected in 1984.
All these years, Mushawarat somehow managed to survive and get established within the community. They had some successes and some failures. Babri Masjid Movement Coordination Committee established in 1986 to lead the movement for restoring Babri Masjid back to the Muslims eventually collapsed leading Muslims questioning the political skill of their leadership. Still somehow Mushawarat survived, may be because there was a need for it.
In year 2000, a faction left Mushawarat because of differences over elections. This group led by Maulana Salim Qasmi has an office in Zakir Nagar area of New Delhi and still retains the same name. But the majority of the members remained with the original organization. Syed Shahabuddin was president from year 2000 to 2007 and was able to keep the organization alive through a difficult time for the organization.
Dr. Zafarul Islam Khan in Mushawrat office
Dr. Zafarul Islam Khan, editor of fortnightly The Milli Gazette was elected President and assumed charge in January 2008. His goal is to expand Mushawarat base by bringing in new blood and activate Mushawarat chapters in different states of India. He also hopes to establish Mushawarat at the district level.
Mushawarat works as a lobbying organization whenever an issue comes up, they try to bring all interested parties in one platform and champion the cause by issuing statements, protest marches and sit-ins, press conferences, meeting government officials and politicians. In a nut shell the premier Muslim umbrella organization of India chooses to work within the parameters of Indian constitution by using democratic tools available to all Indian citizens.
But it not all empty words, Mushawarat also has a Riots Relief Fund and whenever needed, help the victims of the communal riots.
In an interview with TwoCircles.net in March 2008, Dr. Zafarul Islam Khan acknowledged that there are some Muslim youths who are involved in criminal activities; but he was emphatic that whole community should not be persecuted for it. He agreed that SIMI is a fundamentalist and fanatic organization but there is no evidence that it as a group indulged in violence. Tales of its terror involvement are fiction created by the media.
Dr. Zafarul Islam Khan is the son of Islamic scholar Maulana Wahiduddin Khan. He studied in traditional madrasas and also has a PhD from University of Manchester. With his unique background he can talk to professional English educated Muslims as well as the religious leadership. He is mindful of the responsibility that he carries on his shoulders but fearless in articulating the points that need be made.
When I asked him what message he has for Indian Muslims, Dr. Khan’s message was that we do have some burning issues but we have to look at our long term problems like education and economy where Muslims rank among the lowest, as shown by Sachar Report.
Dr. Khan’s message to all Indians is simple – consider Muslims as ordinary citizen of the country. We have no agenda or scheme that runs contrary to India. Muslims in India are very happy to be here and happy with the freedom and democracy that we enjoy as citizen of this country. We don’t look at any other country including Pakistan for our problems. Just like other Indians, we are also trying to live in the Twenty-First century and want a part of the increased economic activity of India.
He pointed out that Islam has been part of India for more than a millennium and therefore Indians should not listen to those who have vested interest in maligning Islam.
Once again, there is lot of pressure on Muslims because of terror investigations which have destroyed many lives unfairly just on suspicions. Many have been jailed for months and years and never been able to regain their normal life back. As the recent Jamia Nagar encounter shows it is either a life living under fear or death in police encounters. Muslims of India are under intense pressure and looking at the able leadership of Dr. Zafarul Islam Khan.
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Ban on Simi
Objectives of SIMI .
1) Shahid Badr Falahi , ex president of the terrorist organization. During the course of the interview he called the stay on SIMI’s ban as a murder of justice. Falahi makes it implicit in the interview that there is no god but Allah, and they would want to convert the 80 crore Hindus of India only to save them from the fires of hell
http://www.tehelka.com/story_main40.asp?filename=Ne160808thesupremecourt...
2) Some of the simi posters say “Secularism, NO; Democracy, NO; Nationalism, NO; Polytheism, NO; Only Islam.”
http://www.tehelka.com/story_main40.asp?filename=Ne060908questioning_the...
Simi proclaims No to Polytheism ( worshiping multiple gods) ,I wonder why it should not hurt hindu sentiments. Simi apologist claims that they have right to practice and propagate their ideas and religion. The penal code explicitly denies any ideology which may hurt the sentiments of another religion. This is the reason, any book critical of Islam gets banned in India. The right to propagate a religion is sanctioned but only if is consistent with public health, morality and order,
Does SIMI sympathizer agree with these two objectives ?
If muslims believes so much into democratic values and freedom to propagate and practice ideas/religion will they let hindus put poster like “No to Islam”.Will they allow Books from salman rushdie or Ali sina to distributed freely within society. Or will you have some Jihadi shooting at publisher or bookowner and muslim society keeping mum about it ?
Infact, I am of okay with Idea of lifting Ban on Simi(lifting ban on simi sould not be precondition to discuss) and let their be discussion freely in society on various Ideas including on life of Prophet and his ways… As a hindu I am willing to take critisicm of my faith . Let symphatizer of SIMI and Shahid Badr Falahi show that stomach to practice what they expect from others ???
Illegal Ban On SIMI
Every organisation in India working with an aim. Communism working to attract everyone to communism, Capitalist working to convert everyone to capitalist and like wise everyone to their ideology. Otherwise, why these organisations are working separately? SIMI worked Indian vista since 1977 to 2001 to propagate their ideology peacefully. They purely worked for an ideological debate. Why no single case reported against SIMI during that period of bomb explosion or terrorism? It was a conspiracy of NDA to trap SIMI. Even after 7 years of ban, none of the cases brought against SIMI is not proved by court means all were allegations only and some one was playing behind it. At the same time, many organisations in India propagating armed fight and giving training to their cadres. For example RSS, Bajrangdal, Shivasena, etc. gives martial/weapon training and make cadres ready for armed fight. Even they destroyed historic babri Masjid keeping Indian Judiciary, administration,etc. as on lookers. Their direct involvement proved in many riots. Many government appointed commissions proved it!
If they believe in Indian judiciary, they should wait for court verdict. Instead they used their muscle power to destroy Babri Masjid. So the real fact is ban should made on some other organisations not against SIMI.
Indian first, religion next
We, Indian Muslims should project our Indian identity more deliberately and keep our faith personal. We have to use our collective strength to contribute towards nation building. For example, did Muslims benefit from the billions of rupees generated by means of revenue from wakf properties?. Who is looting it?. Whereas, Christians have diverted their resources towards nation building and their contribution has touched the life of every Indian.
Also we must start adopting Indian names like Arjun, Bharat, Ram, Krishna etc as Muslim names. This is the only way we can eliminate alienation and peacefully coexist with our Hindu brothers.
REply to R Alamsha
It is Hindus who go around saying 'garv say kaho kay hum Hindu hain" who are not Indian
BJP wallahs are not Indians, they are merely communal Hindus.
The proof : Advani's slogan was "garv say kaho kay hum Hindu hain".
He never said 'say with pride we are Indians'.
The driving force for Hindutva is not patriotism, but an inferiority complex suffered by some Hindus.
Sorry, I have not seen anything Indian in your writing. You are just a communal Hindu and it is self evident - there is no need to pretend !
Shed your Hindu communalism and think as an Indian, and you will be accepted.
COME ON MUSLIMS, PLEASE BECOME CHAMELEONS TO SURVIVE
If you are really Alamshah ( the ruler of the world), there is a big controversy between your name and your concept. Your name is global but your thinking is narrow minded. You are right, Indian nation first, in terms of its security, safety, defence, economy, welfare, law and order etc.
In matters of our country Indian Muslims are first and last Indians, nothing but Indians. But in matters related to submission to the will of God Almighty, Indian Muslims are Muslims first, Muslims last, and nothing but Muslims.
There is no conflict here. As long as the nation where Muslims are citizens, respects the basic religious rights and allows freedom to practise ISLAM, they will be ready to sacrifice their lives for their motherland.This is a proven fact. Read the history of freedom struggle. Whose sacrifice, percapita was greater?
Half baked believers like you fail to understand that an Indian Muslim has a dual role to play, he is both an Indian and a Muslim. There has been an unfairly desperate attempt to deny or reject this duality of Indian Muslims due to changed political environment manufactured by the Sang Parivar.But unfortunately, this attempt is a recipe for 100% failure.
The changes that you suggest (Eg, name change) etc is highly hypocritical and likely to back fire horrendously. Why don’t you ask the males not to circumcise, not to wear caps, the men to use Vibuti and the women to take off their head scarves, and place Kunguma on their foreheads and Muslims should stop considering Makkah as their holy land( I can hear you shouting,saying, of course India is our holy land) etc. etc.
You may not believe it, even IF Muslims do all these, there will be more suspicion. The real problem is not following one’s religion, the real problem is tolerance, understanding, give and take, accommodation and mutual respect. Destiny has brought Hindus and Muslims together and we have to accept reality and live as brothers in our beloved India, other options may lead to more troubles.
REply to R Alamsha
R Alamsha is obviously a Brahmin or high caste Hindu. His proposal of second class citizenship for Muslims fits with the Hindutva mentality. Ambedkar described Hinduism as a system of graded inequality. Hindus have already invented secondary, tertiary and even untouchable citizens !! This is their core belief.
Hindutva Hindus are the worst community in India.
Brahmanical Hinduism has done the worst damage to India.
Hinduism will always lead to a disintegrative tendency. Hindus are masters of dividing society into castes. Hindus have conflicts with Muslims, Sikhs and Christians In contrast, the Muslims integrated the country and forged India into a large nation.
India first Muslim next
Nationalism is a western concept that developed on our part of the world during the foreign occupation.And in the present circumstances people in the more developed parts of the world are in Post Nationalism stage, where national interests don't matter. If you see many thousands Italian origin people in Paris waving Italian flags in their matches against France - no one cares..However, there will be riots in India if a Pakistani flag is seen.India needs better level of exposure to the outside world to understand the dynamics of the society better. In France and UK we keep the right wing parties like National Front and British National Party outside of mainstream politics while the same is not happening in India with BJP.
Mr. R.Alamsha you are one of
Mr. R.Alamsha you are one of the few sensible person I have found at this place . This place stinks with problem and cribs about India but you are the only one who has provided solution and talks of nation building.
First step in solving problem is admitting there is a problem and most of the people instead of admitting the problem and finding a solution starts demeaning others thinking as if by demeaning they are rising. We need sensible people like you to visit this place more and write frequently because if is not the words of leaders which can unite the country but the words of common people like you.
Jai Hind.
See the latest joke from the Hindutva police
They claimed that Indian Mujahdeen is SIMI, because IM is the middle two letters of SIMI. Great deduction by these Hindutva geniuses !
After their fake encounter in Delhi, the various arms of the Hindutva police boasted that the IM has been busted.
After the latest bomb dropped from speeding motor bike, the Hindutva police was at a loss. So theys said that it is the handiwork of an indepedent module.
So IM now stands not for Indian Mujahideen but for Independent Module !!!
Can Dr. Zafar-ul Islam Clarify?
May I request Dr. Zafar-ul Islam to clarify why he thinks that that SIMI is a fundamentalist and fanatic organization. But in the following breath he adds that there is no evidence that it as a group it indulged in violence. Tales of its terror involvement are fiction created by the media. His statement is confusing and may be misinterpreted by the Sangh Parivar.Let him provide hard evidence based on facts to back up his stand. If proved true, the Muslim community should ask the Indian Govt. to consider banning the group and similar groups that are more fanatical belonging to non-Muslim communities too. After all innocent people should live in peace.There is no conflict there.
There are rogue elements in any organisation that may be fanatical. Deal with the rogue elements, convict them but whether the whole organisation is unconstitutional or not, is for the apex court of India to decide. Hence I disagree with the Statement made by Dr. Zafar-ul Islam Khan .
I would suggest that the Indian Govt. should set up a high level commission to find out all caste based and community based bodies/parties that are fanatical and based on their findings such bodies/parties must be deregistered and banned. The party, for instance, to which India’s Health Minister belongs to, I gather gives open support to Tamil Tigers- a well organised liberation group( Sri Lankan Govt. and the USA list them under terrorist organizations) but involves in very many horrendously terrorist attacks on civilians in Sri Lanka, will also come under such a scrutiny. Loyal Indians could not have forgotten the cruelty with which the Tigers slaughtered one of India's finest Prime Ministers: the one who was trying to help them sort out their problems in Sri Lanka. How ungrateful they could be.
who is a fanatic
dear freind,
the comment simply means they are fanatic but not violent.
A fanatic is "one Marked by excessive enthusiasm for and intense devotion to a cause or idea" isnt it?
Till now some of their members are just "accused"and not "convict"in any case of violence.--this is also truth.
Survey says Hindus are quaking with terror !
One of the newspapers did a survey and found the Hindus are scared.
The Hindus living in the metros are quaking.
Did I not warn the Hindus not to notch up all that bad karma by following the BJP ?
The result will never be auspicious for the Hindus.
See today's paper - more bombs found in Ahmedabad.
I told you that more Indians will be killed so that Advani has a chance to get elected.
Did I not warn the Hindus about worshipping false gods (Modi and Adavni) ?
DOn't be anonymous
Be courgae to fight. Only sheeps and goats will scare. PIGS always Drops BOMBS/HUMAN BOMBS.
Hindus like you should go to PoK and get it back for us !
Hindus like you are the cause for the creation of Pakistan in the first place. Gowalkar came up with ideas of Two Nations, before Jinnah.
The RSS and Hindu Mahasabha did not take part in the freedom movement; instead, they were busy promoting tensions between Hindus and Muslims. The RSS and BJP thrive by promoting communalism and dividing Indians.
Can they integrate Indians ? They cannot, because they see themselves as Hindus competing against Muslims.
Since you are a patriotic Hindu, let me ask whether you can go to PoK or the territory in Arunachal occupied by China, fight the Pak or Chinese army, and liberate it for us.
In your case, you loved India so much.
Can we find BJP Hindus who are so patriotic that they will cross the LOC and attack the Pak army, knowing they will not come back ?
BJP Hindus like you are good at fighting within India, in mobs with police protection. When you are 9 in number and the other is 1, then you will show your Hindu pride and bravery by killing and raping.
Hindutva Hindus like you are both cowardly and anti-national.
Hindutva conspiracy
Who is hitting Hindus ? What is shocking is Hindutva Hindus have been massacring Sikhs, Muslims and Christians with impunity, with political and police support. No Hindutva Hindus are imprisoned as a result. So cut out the self-pity for BJP Hindus. You never had it as good anywhere else!
I share your despondency.
May I test you and write “How can the readers expect a justice in the land where Modi is CM and Advani is ex Home Minister ?”. Mulayam and Laloo are the bete noire of all upper castes. But to be fair, they have not organised massacres of Indian citizens like Modi and Advani.
REPLY TO DOn't be anonymous
So, what Hindutva Hindus did for India, let us have it in your own words.?
Many would ask what you have done apart from devising a caste system, wallowing in idolatry, and partitioning the country.
There are famous good Hindus like Gandhi, but you killed him, so what is left ? !
From your writings, I gather that your only claim to achievement is that you did not convert. Now, is this a real attainment ?
You and Hindutva Hindus claim that we converted because we were terrorised and we are rape victims. If so, we would be glad to come back to the Hindu fold.
But after seeing Hindus like you, who would ?
Thus, the more plausible explanation for conversion of Hindus to Islam is because the latter is a better religion. I think you know this. That is why you have an inferiority complex.
In your case, the best way to overcome it is to convert. The door is open to you. Leave your evil ways and join us - or some other religion.
In Hinduism, I cannot see your charcater improving.
See the character of the BJP Hindus revealed by tehelka.
These MODI Hindus admit on TV camera they carried out a pogrom with full support of police and government.
They boast of raping women, as if it restored their lost Hindu manhood. No Muslim would rape and then boast about it.
You see how Yvonne Ridley was treated by Taliban. She converted afterwards and now is a missionary for Islam.
If it had been RSS Hindus, the first thing you would have done to a captive western woman is to rape her.
Direct fight ? (Yourself is Anonymous)
So why do you want to fight ?
A direct fight would be if it is 1:1; that is, 1 Hindus for 1 Muslim.
What is the probability that a Hindu can fight when it is 1 : 1 ?
BJP Hindus can only fight with police support and when you are 9 and the other is 1. That is what we see in Gujurat, Orissa ....
Can the Brahmins of Kashmir go back and get their land back, even with army support ??
Direct fight means 1 : 1. Do you seriously think a Hindu will fight with a Muslim under those conditions ?
Can a Brahmin fight ? Look at the Kashmiri Pandits. Can they fight against a handful of militants, even with the support of the Hindu army, and get back their homes ? I do not think so.
In Gujarat, see the conditions under which Modi Hindus fight. The Hindus are 90%, the Muslims 10%. Even then, only when the Hindus are assured of police backing, they will come out. Their main thing is to rape women. RSS Hindus love that.
Once in Baroda, the Hindu police went on strike over pay. Then the Muslims came out and went after the Hindus. The Hindus ran. The police had to call off their strike to save the Hindus !
DR. ZAFAR-UL ISLAM A CROSS - BRED SCHOLAR NEED OF THE HOUR
I congratulate Dr. Zafar-ul Islam Khan for his immense contribution towards the upliftment of the Indian Muslim minorities. In spite of his very busy life as the editor of Milli Gazette- one of the best, Muslim minority based English media, and other related publication work, he has been performing an excellent job as the leader of All India Muslim Majlis-e-Mushawarat (AIMMM)
I am not trying to belittle the knowledge and work of other great Alims of India who have made tremendous contributions too. But in the complex and complicated world of 21st century, we need not only Alims who are exemplary in matters of Fiqeh ( Jurisprudence) and Dinul-Islam but also in matters of Economics, Education, Investment, Political Science, Sociology, Mass-Media and in all matters that concern the overall development of the Ummah.
Indian Muslims’ biggest drawback is that we are terribly short of such eminent scholars who are well versed in both the religious field and secular fields.
In my humble opinion, Dr. Zafar-ul Islam Khan is an exceptional scholar who has fulfilled my criteria of the sort of scholar that Indian Muslims badly need. We can solve most of our economic, political, educational and social problems within a generation if we can produce as many scholars of his caliber as we have produced in the field of Diniyat only. May Allah SWT Give him better health and enhanced strength, resources, courage and confidence to serve the Ummah for a very long time.
SENSIBLE MUSLIM LEADERSHIP IS AN OXYMORON
You can either be sensible or a Muslim, hence it is oxymoron. Majority of the Muslim insist on blindly following a scripture which has out lived it time- The Quran. Hence any Muslim leader who becomes sensible to other religious groups becomes un-Islamic for the fundamentalist who insist on blindly following the Quran, while a true Muslim as per Quran becomes unacceptable to others. Muslims does not believe in integrating with the society they live in but takes pride in projecting the identity of a segregated group. I am sure that Quran has not specified how a Muslim should wear a Dhothi/ Lungi as it was not a dress of Arabia at the time of Mohammad. Then why does the Muslims of Kerala tie their Dhothi/ Lungi to the left side while every other religious group (yes, Hindus, Christians, Jews etc in Kerala)wears it to the right side. Because of their insistence on being different, there is no part of the world were Muslims are living at peace with any other community and are fighting with every other religious group in the world- Hindus in India, Malaysia,Indonesia - Christians the world over- Buddhist in Thailand, Srilanka- and of course the Jews in Israel. When Muslims do not find any other religious group to fight with, the Shias- Sunnis- Ahamediyas etc etc commence killing each other. Pakistan, Iran, Iraq etc are examples and in Iraq more Muslims have been killed by Sunnis and Shias than the US soldiers. It is time for Muslims to introspect. Some of the the teaching of Quaran is at the center of the problem but unfortunately no Muslim has the courage to call for a revision of those passages which has out lived the time. Every Muslim insist that Islam is a religion of peace, but if the followers of that religion are the most violent group in the world then essentially the fault lies with in that religion
Reply to AK Nair
I would really respect the AK Nair for having his time spent to write his own views and perceptions.
Now with Regard to the QURAN, i would like to ask only one question have you any time read the QURAN, defnitely NO, then please read QURAN and come up with the mistakes where we need correction
I challenge you, you cant find even a single AYAH against Humanity, peace
Please if you can find out please reply.
REPLAY TO ABDUL MUBIN
See my comments on 30 Sept. All Those AYAHS are against other religious groups and is a perpetual source of irritation. IT IS ONLY HINDUS WHO PRAY TO FEMALE GODS. THEY HAVE BEEN SINGLED OUT IN QURAN. WHY??? QURAN STATING THAT JESUS IS NOT SON OF GOD WILL BE SORTED OUT BY USA. BUT WHY SPITE HINDUS WHO SAY OM -SHANTI- OM (THE ONLY RELIGION WHO PRAYS FOR PEACE) IN EVERY DAY PRAYER.
CAN THE FOLLOWING SURAHS BE RE-LOOKED???
Surah 3/28- Al Imran – Let not Believers take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than Believers.
Surah 4/117 -An Nisa- The Pagans call upon female deities. They call upon Satan.
Surah 5/51- Al Maidah – Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends.
Surah 5/82- Al Maidah- Strongest among men in enmity to the believers will you find Jews and Pagans.
Surah 8/12 – Al-Anfal- I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers. Smite you above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them.
Surah 9/1 to 5-At- Tawhah- Declaration of immunity to Unbelievers and then slaying the Pagans.
Surah 9/29-At- Tawhah- Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the last day- Until they pay Jizyah.
Surah 9/30-At- Tawhah- Christians call Christ son of God.- Allahs curse be on them.
Surah 47/4- Muhammad- When you meet the Unbelievers smite them at there neck.
Surah 8/ 38 and 39- Al Anfal- Fight unbelievers.
Surah 112- Allah begets not nor he begotten.
Caliph Uthaman collected Koran Surahs between 644AD to 656 AD after death of Mohammad in 632AD and destroyed imperfect Surahs. A Koran was also made between 813 AD- 833 AD by Caliph al Mamun. So revision has already been done before.
A person must be allowed to pray to a TOOTH BRUSH if he wants to consider it his GOD. Call him a MAD MAN if you please but do not call him Kafir. That is religious freedom. Why do you have to shout that five times a day unless there is doubt about ALLAH and Mohammad.
SIMI Should be Evaluated Before Ban
If anyone evaluate SIMI after the Ban (2001), it is not an factual one. Becuase SIMI banned since 2001 and it gets allegations only. However, the recent tribunal verdict lifting the ban on SIMI proves that everything said against SIMI is mere allegation only. Afer an organisation banning anyone can allegate anything against them. Because the party does not have power to prevent allegations. The current scenario is making more proves by vested interest to continue the illegal ban.
The good thing is that people now understands the facts more easily. Thanks for Sang Pariwar and its minded people/officer for educating the mass by making dramas.
Reply to Mr AK Nair (Comments on Hindu aphorisms)
It must further be reiterated that Hindu cannot be communal or selfish or narrow minded, because it this Hindu philosophy only, which has professed the principles of
1. Vasudhaiva Kutumbakam - The whole world is one family. The love & affection prevailing in the family is expected to prevail among the human beings all over the world.
2. Krinvanto Vishwamaryam - We should make all the world sophisticated and cultured in thought and practice.
3. Atmavat Sarvabhuteshu - We should behave with others as we expect others to behave with us.
4. Matruvat Paradareshu - All women except the wife are to be honoured and respected as mothers.
5. Sarvepi Sukhinah Santu - Let all the living being of the world be happy and healthy.
6. Gratitude To express gratitude towards everybody and everything from which we get something essential for our life.
7. Unity in diversity - There is one inner thread of unity amongst the outward diversities.
Here is my response :
The Hindu CANNOT be communal – says who ? Let others like me look at Hindus and decide they are not communal !! Then such a statement has validity. There is no point you asserting it.
Most of the points you note is typical Hindutva humbug – I have come across it before. For instance, one fellow boasted to me about Vasudhaiva Kutumbakam - The whole world is one family.
**My reply was** : A Hindu calls another Hindu untouchable and will not let him enter the house – but talks tall about everyone being one family !! In my observation, this capacity for duality is a Hindu trait.
Krinvanto Vishwamaryam - We should make all the world sophisticated and cultured in thought and practice.
***My comment** : Yes, but how ? With mobs of kar sevaks ? With dirty naked sadhus in the Kumbh mela ? This is what the world sees !!
Atmavat Sarvabhuteshu - We should behave with others as we expect others to behave with us.
**My comment** : Tell this to Advani and his Hindu mobs. Ayodhya gave Bombay serial blasts by Terrorists and Gujarat gave Akshardam temple shootout by Terrorists – as you sow, so shall you reap !! One could deduce that in fact, only when a counter punch is given, the Hindutva Hindu understands Atmavat Sarvabhuteshu !!
Sarvepi Sukhinah Santu - Let all the living being of the world be happy and healthy.
**I say **: I do not see this in the utterances of Modi and Togadia.
Unity in diversity - There is one inner thread of unity amongst the outward diversities.
**I say : The phrase was made famous by Nehru – he had a right to say it. But when it comes from Hindutva Hindus, it is the usual doublespeak. Divide people along caste and then say it is unity in diversity ! Hindutva Hindus create communal riots and talk about unity ! Bloody cheek !!
What you have written is typical Hindu fascist doublespeak. I am having none of it. This is what caused partition – the Hindu supports fascist thinking, but believes there is no one as tolerant as him !
In fact, I summarized Hindutva thought accurately when I said : Muh mein Ram aur bagal main churi !! The Hindutva Hindu will say Ram and sing about non-violence, but at the same time he will divide people along caste and create communal riots. Cite Gandhis tolerance, and assasinate him !
reply to Patrotic indian
"A Hindu calls another Hindu untouchable and will not let him enter the house – but talks tall about everyone being one family !! In my observation, this capacity for duality is a Hindu trait."
Answer - I admit untouchability was evil introduced in hindu society. However modern India it is made illegal and who made it illegal ? hindus. this shows hindus are capable of reforms.Till today in some part of india untouchability is practised but it just matter of time(I guess 100 more years) that it will vanquished now compare it with 7 century evils from arabia still practiced in muslim worlds.:)
Savarkar and godse(who assasinated gandhi) were active participant in remove untoucability from hindu society.Infact savarkar build temple - PatitPavan for untouchables.
your generalised comment for duality is hindu trait shows your hatred/dislike for hindus which is root of conflict in india. now compare this when you hear of crackers busting when pakistan beats india in cricket from muslim muhalla's.i have experience personally when i saw group of muslim boys supporting pakistan cricket- sheepishly giving argument we support them cause they are better team :) . what will you call it .."DUALITY" ?
Krinvanto Vishwamaryam - We should make all the world sophisticated and cultured in thought and practice.
***My comment** : Yes, but how ? With mobs of kar sevaks ? With dirty naked sadhus in the Kumbh mela ? This is what the world sees !!
and Unity in diversity
Answer : this is what you see when you think of culture..nudity of sadhus ???What is wrong in that ??? India is birth place of various school of thoughts and nurtured them...today you see them in form various religion and sect-jain,sikh etc….how you think was it possible if not because of toleration of hindus... do you really think India became secular because of constitution made in 1950..I think it was since ages …ask parsis and jews of India from whom their anscetor ran from and who gave them refuge and right to practice their respective faith…
Reply to Anonymous (Hindu aphorisms)
Good to hear from you Anonymous(Dont know real name). I am happy you have made an effort to explain Hindutva. I am not clear whether these are your views, or these are the views of Hindutva as seen by Hindutvawadis. But most of it is characterized by the usual doublespeak of the Hindu fascists.
If you will excuse me, the most of things are merely pompous and bombastic. The concept of social service is singularly absent amongst Hindus. The aim is salvation for oneself and escape from suffering (the cycle of rebirth). Christians have a sense of social service. Hindus do not. Mother Theresa can be Christian, but not Hindu. The only sense of service ingrained into Hindus is to serve the Brahmin – do not get upset, but this is the thrust of all Hindu scriptures.
One chaddhiwala told me: Hindutwa is neither ascetism nor illusionism, polytheism nor pantheism. It is not only a collection of thoughts but a successful way of divine life evolved through ages. It is a complete view of life, characterised by wide toleration, deep humanity and high spiritual purpose, free from fanaticism. It is a synthesis of all types of Dharma based experiences. This and this alone is the reason of its survival. The glory of Hindutwa is ineffable. It has within it, all the features of universal Dharma, its doctrines sublime, philosophy, grand ethics soul, elevating, scriptures wonderful and unique Vedantic practices.
I exclaim : Wide toleration ?! The caste system is the most unique form of intolerance – Hindus do not have tolerance for people within the Hindu fold !!
Many Hindus add that : A Hindu identifies himself with the glory, the insult and the calamities of Bharat and responds to it in a very spontaneous way disregarding his personal interests. Awakening these sentiments and organizing the Hindus on a cultural basis is the life mission of Hindu Organizations.
I say the above contains the characterstic doublepeak of Hindu fascism. Hindus have been insulted and so the Hindus have become engaged in mob violence in a very spontaneous way, disregarding his personal interests ! This is the familiar alibi of the Hindu fascist - diminished responsibility for uncivic behaviour. ! The sentence about awakening these sentiments and organizing the Hindus on a cultural basis is the life mission of Hindu Organizations - sounds like what Dr. Moonje, the Hindutva fascist of the 1930s, would have written ! His method of awakening Hindus was to organize them into stormtroopers along Mussolini s model. After seeing Mussolini s brwonshirts, he wrote that we have to organise Hindus to become killers of men and hence reclaim their manhood!! What you are writing is the same.
Proud Indian Dalit
Let us start at the beginning and ask :
Can we have Hinduism without the caste system ? The answer is "No".
It is the Brahmins who invented the caste system to benefit themselves, and they brainwashed the rest to accept it. The caste system is based on an exclusion mentality. Brahmins excluded the majority for millennia.
In the modern age, it is not possible to sustain this. Lower castes are getting representation and displacing to (a small extent) the caste Hindus. The lower castes may make some mistakes initially but they will get better with time. The upper castes cannot tolerate even this small change. They accuse now the low castes of casteism !!
You say non-Brahmins and minorities are producing criminals. I say the Brahmins continue to be the leading criminals - they are the drivers of Hindu fascism. The other communities only produce petty criminals. The RSS is a Brahmin organization, based on a Nazi ideology. They organise the pogroms against minorities. The Brahmin does not use the knife himself, he is not the street rioter, he just hires impoverished Dalits to do the murder.
India has been crippled for millennia by the Brahmins. Mayawati,Mulayam,Paswan and Laloo are a welcome factor in breaking up Brahmin hegemony. We need to drive out Brahmanology, to liberate India.
Many chaddhiwala told me that Brahmins and caste Hindus are leaving India. I say that is the best for India. Leave, go to America, and do not look back at India. Become American. You will find there is no place for Brahmin mischief there.
With an ounce of the
With an ounce of the sincerity and hard work you have used to threw mud at Hinduism you had used in taking steps to foster good relationships with everyone in India and do good to India we would have been the greatest country in the world but alas you are spending all your energy in "blackening Hinduism" .
I understand you hate bjp/rss/modi/advani/togadia and his followers but the people you are supporting are not using bomb to kill the supporters of these people only but even the child's who doesn't have an ideology .
If you have arguments to bomb hindus then some hindus also have arguments to do Ayodhya /Akshardam et. al but you forget that the one suffering is India and its future . Eye for an Eye is making your country blind , so stop being cheerleader of bombing and make this country a great country.
Quran gives you the first hand information about Islam
brother nair,
i honor your emotions and wonder at your innocence which is due to the lack of knowledge about Islam.You better make an idea about islam either through reading newspapers or by reading Quran itself.Choose the wiser option.
Quran ammendment suggested in following Surahs at least
Surah 3/28- Al Imran – Let not Believers take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than Believers.
Surah 4/117 -An Nisa- The Pagans call upon female deities. They call upon Satan.
Surah 5/51- Al Maidah – Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends.
Surah 5/82- Al Maidah- Strongest among men in enmity to the believers will you find Jews and Pagans.
Surah 8/12 – Al-Anfal- I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers. Smite you above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them.
Surah 9/1 to 5-At- Tawhah- Declaration of immunity to Unbelievers and then slaying the Pagans.
Surah 9/29-At- Tawhah- Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the last day- Until they pay Jizyah.
Surah 9/30-At- Tawhah- Christians call Christ son of God.- Allahs curse be on them.
Surah 47/4- Muhammad- When you meet the Unbelievers smite them at there neck.
Surah 8/ 38 and 39- Al Anfal- Fight unbelievers.
Surah 112- Allah begets not nor he begotten.
Caliph Uthaman collected Koran Surahs between 644AD to 656 AD after death of Mohammad in 632AD and destroyed imperfect Surahs. A Koran was also made between 813 AD- 833 AD by Caliph al Mamun. So revision has already been done before.
A person must be allowed to pray to a TOOTH BRUSH if he wants to consider it his GOD. Call him a MAD MAN if you please but do not call him Kafir. That is religious freedom. Why do you have to shout that five times a day unless there is doubt about ALLAH and Mohammad.
Musharawat
Sir,
I found the agenda of this organisation as laudable.But Dr.Khan's comment that SIMI is a fundementalist organisation but it doesNOT indulge in violence, shows his lack of application.Is the Supremecourt of India and Home ministry of India prejudiced against SIMI? Nobody banned Musharawat or asks for its ban.
The comment by gulbuddin is very important. Muslims should understand that there are fundemntalists in their mist as there are fundemntalists amongst Hindus and Christians and sikhs.It is foolish and WRONG on the part of MUSHARAWAT or any other Muslim organisation to support EACH AND EVERY ACT OF EVERY MUSLIM.
Arjun singh, union education Minister might have supported the action of Prof Mushirul hassan, of Jamia in giving support to two students who are terror suspects.Does it have approval of MAJORITY OF HINDUS? I am an Indian christian and i strongly disapprove of this action.Muslims must not think every action of BJP is fundemntalist.It is a political party exploiting the MAJORITY HINDU OPINION. Every THINIKING MUSLIM OF THIS FORUM should ask
1.Is the action of Vicechancellor of Jamia to give LEGAL AID FOR FREE TO HIS STUDENTS has any precedent and so what is the policy of Acedemic council?
2.Is this legal aid given to every student without regard to nature of crime?
3.Is the academic council examine the evidence against the students,financial capability to defend themselves,nature of crime OR JUST GIVING IT BALNK CHEQUE?
We all know Bhopal bar refused to give legal aid to terrorist accused and i think it is blatantly wrong.But TWO WRONGS doesnot make it right.
I ask all thinking MUSLIMS TO FIGHT THE FUNDEMNTALIST FORCES IN HINDUISM WHICH SAY IT HAS THE SOLE MONOPOLY RIGHTS TO PATRIOTISM. But it doesnot mean support for EVERY ACTION OF EVERY MUSLIM.
The Innocent Prisoners
It is a well known fact that thousands of innocent Muslims are behind bars. PDP, a wellknown Political Party in Kerala, Chairman spend 9 long years in jail without any reason. Later Court of Justice found him not guilty.
Still so many Muslims leaders, well educated youths are in prison. No Red Cross will demand an enquiry and do not expect some miracles will happen for their relaese. Best of my knowledge not a single Islamic State enquired this matter, by calling Indian Representative in thier country.
AIMMM should give priority for this matter immediately and efficently. First we have to get the list of Muslim prisoners in Indian jail. In Gujarath itself, where hundreds of Muslims are killed by Hindutva forces with the support of state government, thousands of Muslims are in jail without trial.
Even we have to make petitions to UN and OIC, if our attempt to save them through approach to the Indian government fails.
It is not a child's play to keep citizens in the prison without justice. We need Justice and it is our Right.
Let me congratulate the Jamia VC Sri. Mushirul Hassan who offered legal support for the pupils. But Jamia has too much responsibilities towards thier 'kids'. Some of the sutdents killed in cold blood by the police (100% fake encounter). Let the police prove the martyred pupils are terrorists, and we are sure that they are innocents. Though they are terrorists as police claims, who gave the authority to police to kill them in cold blood? Jamia has the responsibility to challenge the police and Delhi administration in the Court.
Jamia Students are not toy targets to train shooting, by the cruel beasts. This is not a Muslim issue, but a national one.
I wish to know what actions were taken by the All India Students Unions, in this regard. Have the Students' Unions / Federations have the guts to call for a all India strike in this crucial issue? Or do you think Muslims students' blood is worthless?
Anyone can contact me on prathibasam@yahoo.com
Mushawarat
Dr Zafarul Islam Khan should be congratulated for providing excellent leadership to Mushawarat.
Mushawarat should not become a political party, but should continue to be a lobbying group, taking up progressive Muslim causes with the government, legislators, courts, media and the public in general. It should continue to be engaged in issues such as justice, fairness, democracy, secularism and education. It should also fight wars against what may be called "Muslim jahalat", e.g. against those who oppose polio vaccination or oppose family planning and those who issue bizarre fatwas. Its overall goal should be to bring Muslims in the national mainstream as citizens who are proud to be Indian, and proud to be Muslims, and who are not subjected to discrimination, suspicion or ridicule.
RSS Hindus have reduced India to pogroms, bomb blasts ,fake enco
Here is more on the contradictory stories fabricated by the Bombay, Gujarat and Delhi police.
Even the more decent sections of the Hindu media wonder quietly about the inconsistencies. Of course, no one has the courage to say it is a fake encounter. They will close the paper down.
This is election time. More Indians, Hindus and Muslims, will have to die as Advani tries to become PM. The communal Hindus (RSS Brand) have reduced India to pogroms, bomb blasts and fake encounters.
The Muslims and British integrated India. Hindutva Hindus (BJP) progressively disintegrated it in 60 years. The desire to divide comes naturally to the BJP Hindu. It comes from the caste system and the Brahmin's control. India needs to weed out these communal elements.
www.ndtv.com/convergence/ndtv/story.aspx?id=NEWEN20080066763
The revelations by Mumbai Police related to the Delhi encounter is raising questions over the killing of Atif -- alleged mastermind behind the Delhi serial blasts.
The lead to Atif, they claim, came from Afzal Usmani -- one of the suspects who stole the cars used to plant bombs in Ahmedabad.
The Mumbai Police had arrested Usmani almost a month ago in August. He gave detailed descriptions of Atif and his associates whom he had met in Gujarat.
"Afzal knew Atif and had met him in Gujarat," said Rakesh Maria, Joint Commissioner of Police.
Shortly after the Delhi blasts, the Mumbai Police had informed the Delhi Police about Atif's presence in Delhi.
Sources say the Mumbai Police had asked their Delhi counterparts not to act in haste against Atif. Instead, they should put him under observation so that Mumbai cops could learn more about Atif's activities.
But the Delhi Police went ahead with the encounter, which Mumbai Police sources say was done in a hurry to claim credit.
However, no one from the force is willing to say this on record.
"We all worked in tandem - Gujarat, Mumbai and Delhi," said Rakesh Maria, Joint Commissioner of Police (Crime).
The claim by the Mumbai Police on the Atif tip-off raises even further questions.
Gujarat police had also claimed credit for the tip-off which led to Aitf. They claimed to have given Delhi Police five cell phone numbers based on the interrogation of the Gujarat blast accused which were put under the scanner.
One of the accused had called a Delhi number which turned out to be Atif's.
So, two police forces - each claiming credit for having led the Delhi Police to Atif - are throwing up more questions over what is already a controversial encounter
Message to Mushawarat
With all due respect to moderate Muslims,
its understandable how some very patriotic
Muslims could be feeling that they are also
painted with same brush as the terrorists.
But we still have to hear one moderate and
patriot Muslim brother to come out and say
in public that " we condemn those terrorist
attacks that are being carried in India, and
we will help police & Govt. catch the killers".
Now when Govt. or police investigates a crime,
sure people feel harrased. But please think of
those Indians who lost their family members due
to these terror attacks. We owe them justice !!
And we need to stop calling ourselves victims
everytime Govt. tries to investigate into terror
attacks. If we have criminals among us, let the
Govt. catch them, because who knows whose family
member can be killed in next blast next time.
Hindus killed in Kanpur blasts - they were making bombs !!!!
The article below appeared in one of the papers. For the last few years, some Hindutva Hindus have been caught making bombs.
It only came to light because they screwed up and the bombs blew up during preparation (Example : Nanded).
The interesting thing is the police downplays it, the media reports it briefly, and the Hindus do not get worked up - the organisation behind it is not named 15 minutes after the blasts.
No prosecutions or convictions of BJP Hindus occurs in India. The BJP Hindus form the worst community in India, and that is why India cannot rise behind a certain level.
See China in the Olympics and India's pathetic showing.
In India, the BJP Hindus have better things to do such as organise pogroms, and promote mob rule.
----------------------------------------------------
Two killed in Kanpur blast, bomb ingredients found
Indo-Asian News Service
Lucknow, August 25, 2008
Raw material for explosives has been seized from a spot in Kanpur where two men were killed in a bomb blast, police said on Monday. Rajiv alias Piyush Mishra and Bhupinder Singh were killed while making crude bombs on Sunday afternoon.
On Monday, police recovered some crude hand grenades, lead oxide, red lead, potassium nitrate, bomb pins, timers and batteries from the spot, inside a hostel in Kalyanpur area of Kanpur, about 80 km from Lucknow.
"S.S. Mishra used to run a private hostel in his house and the dead include his son Piyush and his friend," A.K. Singh, Kanpur senior superintendent of police, told IANS.
Piyush came home with Bhupinder and asked the residents of the hostel to vacate the rooms on the pretext of checking the electric wiring. As soon as the occupants left the hostel, a massive blast took place, he added.
"The recovery of timer device and prohibited explosive raw material indicates a major terror plot and police teams have begun a probe," S.N. Singh, inspector general (Kanpur zone), told IANS on phone.
Bhupinder used to run a photo studio in the Sarvoday Nagar locality of Kanpur and his shop was close to the city's popular J.K. temple, police said.
"Many people visit this temple on Janmashtami and as his shop was close by, we suspect the explosives were meant to spread terror during Sunday's celebrations," a police official said.
You too play corrupt police role who killed their colleague
According to reports police has killed Mohan Sharma in police vehicle while he was bleeding for wounds of bullets. He was not killed by Atif and Sajid. because they were carried dead to Batla house. police has killed them in cold blood somewhere else. the idea is simple : dead men tale no tales. After killing label them with any mark. for your information, five lakh muslims marched in anti-terrorism rally in Feb. 2008 and condemned terrorism and now condemning state and police terrorism. but nothing will please you, RSS and Banjrandal.
The main terrorist organisations destabilising India is RSS
The main terrorist organisations destabilising India appear to be Hindu : RSS, VHP, Bajrang Dal, and BJP etc
The main terrorist organisations in India appear to be Hindu : RSS, VHP, Bajrang Dal, and BJP.
The VHP said Gujarat riots were inspired by Rama. The RSS said Gujarat was the laboratory of Hindutva and they wanted to spread their violence to other states. This is Hindu terrorism.
Sure there are Muslim terrorist organisations and there have been Sikh ones as well. But Hindu ones are the worst because they enjoy state immunity and patronage. And people like Advani and Vajpai support them. The rest of the world can see that, so that is why they cannot get sympathy from America.
I don't blame a Muslim woman if she wanted to target Modi, considering how Mulsim women were targeted by fanatical Hindu mobs. I feel sorry for the revenge attack in Akshardam where inncocent Hindus were killed but I would not be sorry if someone were to attack terrorist Modi.
The fact is if there was no Modi, there would be no Godhra, no Gujarat riots, no Akshardam, no terrorists. Get it ?
What is keeping India backward is Hindu communalists like Modi and Advani. They are a drag on the country. We need to detoxify, defang and decommunalise people like Modi and Advani.
USA does not have RSS
USA does not have RSS but 9/11 happened there.
Pakistan does not have RSS but every day suicide bombing happens there everyday.
UK does not have ...
Spain does not have....
But I guess people who are from religion of peace will never admit anything is wrong with their religion.
Hindutva Terrorism
I cited upper caste Hindu terrorism against Muslims and Dalits in India - what does it have to do with US and UK ?
I was citing the latest upper caste Hindu terrorism against Christians and Dalits in Orissa and fake encounter by Hindu police.
Your response is US and UK. So who is repeating the same irrelevant nonsense again and again ?
The Jammu Hindus created trouble againt Kashmiris. So they have been struck. Why should anyone sympathise with these stupid BJP Hindus ?
Whatever the Hindutva Hindu touches, disintegrates. They had India partitioned - the RSS and Hindu Mahasabha ensured that.
Now, they are working heatedly to make sure the Kashmiris also leave.
These BJP Hindus created trouble for Muslims in other parts of India, so Imam Bukhari says we shall have to ask for another partition.
Why are you so incompetent ?
The Muslims built India, and the RSS Hindus have steadily disintegrated it in just 60 years.
The Hindus are a collection of castes. It is a collection of minorities.
Is a tribal a Hindu ? Is a Dalit a Hindu ? You are no more a majority than Muslims, Christians or others.
The Brahmins and caste Hindus are minorities, who talk as if they own India.
But that is why India does not have a broad base - the majority is excluded by a parasitic minority.
Hindu Brahmins caste culture is alien to India.
Hindu Brahmin caste cultute is alien to India. The micro miniroty 15 % population is propagating 24 hrs only two things - that hindu are in majority and Islam pobia. In India there should be a national vote where - the agenda should have to be where hindus froms 70 % of the Indian population.
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